sick dog

"Sharon Too" wrote in message

> >I have 13 year old dog, labrador type, that about a month ago, while we
> >were on vacation, was taken to the vet. They diagnosed him with heat
> >exhaustion after taking blood and x-rays and charging $200.. When we got
> >back I noticed the dog was throwing up food. He would gulp it down then
> >retch it back up. I took him back to the vet who said he had whipworm and
> >a blockage in his throat so I have been hand feeding the dog and treated
> >all our dogs for whipworm, this of course, cost another $200.. We went on
> >vacation and the person taking care of him called us and said the dog
> >wasn't eating well. We got back and now the dog is only drinking
> >evaporated milk. He won't eat any of the dog food and we've tried
> >different types. My wife and I think we need to have him put to sleep,
> >but I was hoping someone here might have an idea what might be wrong. I
> >have to admit we really don't trust the vets we have in this small town.
> >My brother in law has spent thousands on his dogs over the years and they
> >never seem to cure them. Eventually the dogs just die after several trips
> >to the vet.
>
> Then get a second opinion in another town. Go to a teaching hospital if
> you must. But be prepared. When you get into diagnostics (and you have to
> since one just cannot look at a dog and diagnose) those studies and
> procedures cost money. It's something you have to be willing to do. Vet
> medicine is a costly business to run, unfortunately.
>
Why is it more expensive then human medicine? The first diagnosis was simply
to get my brother in law out so they could go home. The second diagnosis was
what they should have done in the first place. The problem with the dog is
something else. I have no confidence in these vets based on their history. I
was hoping someone here could give me some tips on what to have them check
for.
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

> Why is it more expensive then human medicine?

It's not. Get yourself an itemized bill next time you're at a hospital.
Break a leg? Pay $10G+ for surgery. In an animal hospital depending on board
certification, for a dog it would be anywhere from $700 to $3000.

An animal hospital is a smaller version of a human hospital The expense to
run it is sometimes unfathomable, not to mention the education and
continuing education it takes just to be licensed and practice.

>The first diagnosis was simply to get my brother in law out so they could
>go home.

Sometimes the easiest and least intrusive thing to do is to treat what
commonly causes these problems and see what comes of it in a couple days. No
improvement, go on to more diagnostics which of course incurr more expense.

The second diagnosis was
> what they should have done in the first place. The problem with the dog is
> something else. I have no confidence in these vets based on their history.
> I was hoping someone here could give me some tips on what to have them
> check for.

You've given too little information to make any recommendations. Blood work
panel results? Written results of radiographs? Your best bet is to get
another opinion at a hospital elsewhere.
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

The dog decided he could eat hot dogs, will not eat anything else. Today, I
looked around the yard and found where he was pooping them out undigested.
It looked like a brown oily coating on the pieces and the grass. I guess
I'll take him Thursday to the vet again and if they say he needs some more
x-rays and biopsies I'll just have him put to sleep. The stool samples,
blood work and x-rays he has already had should have been enough. It's the
same problem when they first saw him or its a series of problems because of
old age or some underlying disease he has and, as usual, they want to drag
it out and make as much money as possible until the dog dies. If the dog had
a broken leg I'm sure they could diagnose and heal him, unfortunately, he
doesn't have anything obvious to a layman so they are stumped. I guess if I
was independently wealthy I could wander all over the state and find a good
vet that knows what they are doing, but I must work. When I go to the doctor
it costs $60.00, with an x-ray its another $30 plus what the radiologist
charges. That's the cost to the insurance. Again, why so much for the same
services at a vet?
"Sharon Too" wrote in message

>> Why is it more expensive then human medicine?
>
> It's not. Get yourself an itemized bill next time you're at a hospital.
> Break a leg? Pay $10G+ for surgery. In an animal hospital depending on
> board certification, for a dog it would be anywhere from $700 to $3000.
>
> An animal hospital is a smaller version of a human hospital The expense to
> run it is sometimes unfathomable, not to mention the education and
> continuing education it takes just to be licensed and practice.
>
>>The first diagnosis was simply to get my brother in law out so they could
>>go home.
>
> Sometimes the easiest and least intrusive thing to do is to treat what
> commonly causes these problems and see what comes of it in a couple days.
> No improvement, go on to more diagnostics which of course incurr more
> expense.
>
> The second diagnosis was
>> what they should have done in the first place. The problem with the dog
>> is something else. I have no confidence in these vets based on their
>> history. I was hoping someone here could give me some tips on what to
>> have them check for.
>
> You've given too little information to make any recommendations. Blood
> work panel results? Written results of radiographs? Your best bet is to
> get another opinion at a hospital elsewhere.
>
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

>The stool samples, blood work and x-rays he has already had should have
>been enough.

How do you know this? Sometimes a daignosis comes after not only a series of
tests (and you've only scratched the surface) but also a period of time with
different treatment options.

It's the
> same problem when they first saw him or its a series of problems because
> of old age or some underlying disease he has and, as usual, they want to
> drag it out and make as much money as possible until the dog dies.

I'm sorry this is your perception. Have you mentioned your thoughts to them?
And old age in pets sometimes causes gradual system failure. Sometimes it's
just time.

If the dog had
> a broken leg I'm sure they could diagnose and heal him, unfortunately, he
> doesn't have anything obvious to a layman so they are stumped.

They aren't 'laymen'. Medicine isn't as easy as black and white.

I guess if I
> was independently wealthy I could wander all over the state and find a
> good vet that knows what they are doing, but I must work. When I go to the
> doctor it costs $60.00, with an x-ray its another $30 plus what the
> radiologist charges. That's the cost to the insurance. Again, why so much
> for the same services at a vet?

Our exam fee is about $37, but it varies between practices depending on the
amount of staff they have (we have 12), how they are certified or licensed,
what equipment they have as well as other overhead (in addition to payroll,
such as malpractice insurance, license-permits-fees, inspection fees,
building maintenance, janitorial expenses, laboratory (blood, pathology and
radiology including ultrasounds, regular x-rays etc, throw in things like
the autoclave, monitoring equipment like Pulse-ox, defib, O2, ICU and
equipment, specialized recovery and observation units) equipment-maintenance
and supplies, Workmans compensation, disability, continuing education,
pensions, health insurance, office supplies, computer system upkeep and
maintenance and on and on....Staff isn't found on the street. From doctors,
to licensed veterinary technicians and assistants to bookkeepers and the
rest. They require fair pay, benefits, continuing education. They are
educated and highly trained.This ain't Burger King.)

I have never seen a $30 charge for x-rays in human medicine. My experience
in both billing in that industry years ago, and now with an active family,
x-rays and the reading of such by radiologists run into the hundreds. We do
three views for around $100 and our patients have to have much more
attention, care, monitoring and sedation than humans for a basic x-ray (dogs
and cats won't sit still and hold their leg just right when you ask them.)

You are asking the wrong people to justify the expenses you have incurred.
Call the practice and ask for itemized bills with explanations. Personally,
what you've paid isn't anything above average.
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

I could tell you were a vet. The only reason you answered my post was
because I dissed your profession. The fact that my dog is sick is secondary
and you're trying to justify your industries fees. At the first visit they
said it was heat stroke and he had the liver and kidneys of a puppy. A week
later he has whipworm, hmmm, missed that in the first stool sample. The next
week the dog isn't eating at all and is now passing undigested food and not
urinating. How much you want to bet they'll take x-rays, stool and blood
sample and sell me some medicine. Then the last time I bring him in it will
be, well, he's an old dog, time to let go. I'll keep you posted.
"Sharon Too" wrote in message

> >The stool samples, blood work and x-rays he has already had should have
> >been enough.
>
> How do you know this? Sometimes a daignosis comes after not only a series
> of tests (and you've only scratched the surface) but also a period of time
> with different treatment options.
>
> It's the
>> same problem when they first saw him or its a series of problems because
>> of old age or some underlying disease he has and, as usual, they want to
>> drag it out and make as much money as possible until the dog dies.
>
> I'm sorry this is your perception. Have you mentioned your thoughts to
> them? And old age in pets sometimes causes gradual system failure.
> Sometimes it's just time.
>
> If the dog had
>> a broken leg I'm sure they could diagnose and heal him, unfortunately, he
>> doesn't have anything obvious to a layman so they are stumped.
>
> They aren't 'laymen'. Medicine isn't as easy as black and white.
>
> I guess if I
>> was independently wealthy I could wander all over the state and find a
>> good vet that knows what they are doing, but I must work. When I go to
>> the doctor it costs $60.00, with an x-ray its another $30 plus what the
>> radiologist charges. That's the cost to the insurance. Again, why so much
>> for the same services at a vet?
>
> Our exam fee is about $37, but it varies between practices depending on
> the amount of staff they have (we have 12), how they are certified or
> licensed, what equipment they have as well as other overhead (in addition
> to payroll, such as malpractice insurance, license-permits-fees,
> inspection fees, building maintenance, janitorial expenses, laboratory
> (blood, pathology and radiology including ultrasounds, regular x-rays etc,
> throw in things like the autoclave, monitoring equipment like Pulse-ox,
> defib, O2, ICU and equipment, specialized recovery and observation units)
> equipment-maintenance and supplies, Workmans compensation, disability,
> continuing education, pensions, health insurance, office supplies,
> computer system upkeep and maintenance and on and on....Staff isn't found
> on the street. From doctors, to licensed veterinary technicians and
> assistants to bookkeepers and the rest. They require fair pay, benefits,
> continuing education. They are educated and highly trained.This ain't
> Burger King.)
>
> I have never seen a $30 charge for x-rays in human medicine. My experience
> in both billing in that industry years ago, and now with an active family,
> x-rays and the reading of such by radiologists run into the hundreds. We
> do three views for around $100 and our patients have to have much more
> attention, care, monitoring and sedation than humans for a basic x-ray
> (dogs and cats won't sit still and hold their leg just right when you ask
> them.)
>
> You are asking the wrong people to justify the expenses you have incurred.
> Call the practice and ask for itemized bills with explanations.
> Personally, what you've paid isn't anything above average.
>
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

>I could tell you were a vet. The only reason you answered my post was
>because I dissed your profession. The fact that my dog is sick is secondary
>and you're trying to justify your industries fees.

No, I manage our hospital. That's why my answers to you were mostly to
describe the business end of it. It's apparent you're looking for a post to
piss on and not for explanations.

Find a vet you can trust and understand that it will cost money to get a
service. If you are having financial problems tell him/her that you need to
be very careful about the money spent and that you may need a financial plan
set up.
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

"Ringer" wrote in message

> I could tell you were a vet. The only reason you answered my post was
> because I dissed your profession.
.............actually she's not, her husband is. I don't know anyone who
could diagnose your dog over the internet, especially with so few details.
If bloodwork was done, what were the results? Any abnormal values and what
were they?

.. At the first visit they
> said it was heat stroke and he had the liver and kidneys of a puppy. A
week
> later he has whipworm, hmmm, missed that in the first stool sample.

...........whips are often missed, by everyone. Heatstroke can have further
delayed complications. Ask your vet about this. At 13 there's not much
reserve left.

The next
> week the dog isn't eating at all and is now passing undigested food and
not
> urinating. How much you want to bet they'll take x-rays, stool and blood
> sample and sell me some medicine. Then the last time I bring him in it
will
> be, well, he's an old dog, time to let go.

..........bloodwork isn't out of the norm, even successive draws. You need
to ask them what the differential diagnoses are - what's the list of things
it could be. Initiate a discussion.

buglady
take out the dog before replying
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

"buglady" wrote in message:

> .........bloodwork isn't out of the norm, even successive draws. You need
> to ask them what the differential diagnoses are - what's the list of
things
> it could be. Initiate a discussion.

I don't think people realize just exactly how many diseases/disorders there
are with overlapping sets of symptoms. Living beings are incredibly complex
machines, and we don't even understand all the parts fully at this point.

As an example to the OP, I have a friend who's been battling a myriad of
symptoms for over six years now. After doing just about any test they can
think of, and seeking consultation with just about every medical
subspecialist, the finding is that she's a 'medical mystery'. So of
course, she could sympathize when we went through an intense phase of
testing earlier in the year to find out just what's wrong with Khan (I'm not
adding it all up, but the priciest three weeks added up to $1500), and he
also turned out to be a 'medical mystery'. We had some of the best doctors
and specialists at our disposal, and even with everything modern medicine
has to offer, some questions remain unanswered.

Suja
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 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

"Suja" wrote in message

> I don't think people realize just exactly how many diseases/disorders
there
> are with overlapping sets of symptoms. Living beings are incredibly
complex
> machines, and we don't even understand all the parts fully at this point.

.........amen to that - when it's a zebra instead of a horse, sometimes it
requires a lot of searching.

buglady
take out the dog before replying
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

> ........amen to that - when it's a zebra instead of a horse, sometimes it
> requires a lot of searching.

Been there, done that. Years of infertility, then among 3 live births (3
great sons) I had 5 miscarriages and one ectopic - not one specialist in two
major cities in two countries could give us a reason why. I'm over the
losses, but it just kills me not to know why my reproductive health sucked
so much!

I feel the frustrations of our clients when a diagnosis doesn't come as
automatically as it does for something like a laceration or kidney failure.
And even more frustrating is when there is more than one condition present
whose symptoms can trump each other and make the diagnoses less obvious.

Unfortunately in this age of TV instant diagnosis & treatment: 60 minutes or
less on ER, Grays Anatomy and the like - that some people's anxiety over
their much loved pet member of the family becomes impulsive immediate need
to know. And frankly, it's just hard to not be able to do more - whether
it's your pet or child.
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog 

Well put! As a person in the medical prof. I know about complexities.


"Sharon Too" wrote in message

>> ........amen to that - when it's a zebra instead of a horse, sometimes it
>> requires a lot of searching.
>
> Been there, done that. Years of infertility, then among 3 live births (3
> great sons) I had 5 miscarriages and one ectopic - not one specialist in
> two major cities in two countries could give us a reason why. I'm over the
> losses, but it just kills me not to know why my reproductive health sucked
> so much!
>
> I feel the frustrations of our clients when a diagnosis doesn't come as
> automatically as it does for something like a laceration or kidney
> failure. And even more frustrating is when there is more than one
> condition present whose symptoms can trump each other and make the
> diagnoses less obvious.
>
> Unfortunately in this age of TV instant diagnosis & treatment: 60 minutes
> or less on ER, Grays Anatomy and the like - that some people's anxiety
> over their much loved pet member of the family becomes impulsive immediate
> need to know. And frankly, it's just hard to not be able to do more -
> whether it's your pet or child.
>
 >> Stay informed about: sick dog